An Idea Exchange for SAS software and services

Comments
by Valued Guide
on ‎04-15-2014 02:22 AM

Please elaborate... As a hyping buzzword webservices is often abused.

SAS-studio looks to be a full interfaces more a replacement of the SAS-pc using the DM approach (local installed).

Knowing SAS/intrnet (v8) this was possible as one the samples was already almost that far.

A lot of what is behind that can be deduced.

SAS Environtmanager is more something belonging to the operational IT services. Tivoli HPSC SCOM and a lot more of those tooling s are commonly used for that.

When you would look at the APM (Audit Performance Monitoring) tool. You will see the 9.4 package is much smaller as the 9.3 one. Functionality of that has moved into the environtmanager. The bad thing is that the connection to common used tools looks to be have dropped. It has become a dedicated task. If necessary you must build your own agents. 

by Frequent Contributor
on ‎04-15-2014 03:47 PM

Thank you for your feedback Jaap.

Here are my thoughts...

@SAS Studio: it is shipped in three "flavours": basic, single-user and mid-tier. I am referring to the mid-tier (see: SAS(R) Studio 3.1: Administrator's Guide). In the backend runs a web server which must have a webservice API. Otherwise it would not be possible for the browser to communicate with it.

@SAS Environment Manager: same architecture here. The client PC has a webbrowser which talks to the webserver via an webservice API. Because the Environment Manager was announced as an alternative for the SAS Management Console and is expected to replace the SMC in the long term, it would be extremely helpfull if some management tasks (like deleting metadata objects, viewing effective user rights, creating a new STP, ...) could be used by the end user via the web API.

I know there is the SAS/Integration Technologies product with the IOM an OMI interfaces, but they are hard to use and most of the interesting stuff is not documented either. If SAS thinks strategic then the web API will become the long term replacement/ addition for the SAS/IT interfaces. As a professional developer and consultant i wish i had the documentation for this to integrate it into my own applications.

Quoting Jaap

"If necessary you must build your own agents."

That's exactly what i am talking about!

by Valued Guide
on ‎04-16-2014 02:41 AM

SAS Studio,  I see:

        The midtier is needed for web, but all the others are similar to EGuide to an Appserver. The change is: it is using the classic SAS-DMS approach

        There is an webserver added. It is similar to EGuide to "local" and the classic SAS-DMS approach. the change is it is using a web-server

        I you only do SAS-coding, there is no need for metadata SAS Integration technologies will do, that is the objectpspawner / workspaceserver. We have the Same old classic DMS by Web.

AS the classic DMS is back possible some old procs/approaches are also coming back.

The developers guide SAS(R) Studio 3.1: Developer's Guide is pointing a different direction. The task approach is more like the Eguide approach.  

I the task approach the one you are looking for?

by Valued Guide
on ‎04-16-2014 03:31 AM

SAS environtmanager I see:
- SAS(R) Environment Manager 2.1: User's Guide, Second Edition being described as a monitoring tool. As it is based on VMware Monitoring & Management  | Hyperic. That is operational monitoring part of an IT service. This makes sense with abandoning third-party web-tiers and delivering the VM-fabric components for those (What is new 9.4).

This one is telling you have a SAS isolated ITIL implementation. SAS(R) Environment Manager 2.1: User's Guide, Second Edition 

Connecting to other, primary operational processes, is possible by snmp. SAS(R) Environment Manager 2.1: User's Guide, Second Edition. It is not very client friendly to do this way.  

The statement of a SMC being totally replaced by environtmanager does not make sense as it manages different things.

There are parts options in the SMC that are accessing the services (WS STP Objectspawner etc.) that have some overlaps. 

I see the ACT part SAS(R) Environment Manager 2.1: User's Guide, Second Edition an the remark.

As strategy that could be conflicting with other approaches that are promote (bisecag biasag datastepinterfaces integrating with other environments).

There you have a good point. Integrating with other already present or IT processes is important.   

That is for "operational monitoring"  user-access management (RBAC) and much more.

Getting something technically isolated is the first step for removal, not a good strategy.    

Adjusting your proposal a little bit for this and I agree and vote up.     

by Frequent Contributor
on ‎04-21-2014 03:17 PM

AS the classic DMS is back possible some old procs/approaches are also coming back.

The developers guide SAS(R) Studio 3.1: Developer's Guide is pointing a different direction. The task approach is more like the Eguide approach.  

I the task approach the one you are looking for?

No, IMHO the task approach is the wrong way. Even in EG the task approach has very limited features and use cases.

What i am looking for is a way to do things via an API. The difference is that a task runs inside the blackbox SAS has created. The API can be used by any kind of software like my own applications.

by Frequent Contributor
on ‎04-21-2014 03:26 PM

The statement of a SMC being totally replaced by environtmanager does not make sense as it manages different things.

I heard that at some SAS conferences that the roadmap would be to integrate more and more SMC features into the environment manager and SAS DM/EG features into SAS Studio. The reason: you don't need a client installation any longer. All the end user needs is a web browser.

by Valued Guide
on ‎04-22-2014 01:44 AM

Ok I understand your API question no not is one for tweaking in the low level kernel of SAS studio but one you could easy build applications. Call it Applications Facility.

That product SAS/AF is already existing but designed as an user interface for old character based (fixed) approaches. It should be reviewed and modernized by SAS for that.

-- SAS/AF--

There is more interesting history behind that. SAS wanted to have replaced by app-dev-studio, that is developing the clients in a java-based way (using eclipse) that failed.

They went for the Portal approach at the same time, that part has got more acceptance. At the moment they are wanting mostly SAS-VA for that (replacing Portal).

SAS-AMO is still being promoted the integration for the office/desktop (MS-office, Windows). It is as easy as someone is working with that why should the information not be there. Open office other OS-types however are missing.  We are seeing and will see more products coming in as alternatives.        

by Valued Guide
on ‎04-22-2014 02:12 AM

The browser based approach is another nice architectural one. With these kind of visions SAS is not really good.

The browser bases approach is the wishfull approach of not being dependent of your desktop installation. That is the real goal and what is desktop dependent should be isolated  as much as possible not causing impact to others.

Let us see what you do with browsers they are all behaving a little bit different (compatibility to be checked). You can get an update of the browser-supplier and it will change. (jus recently happened at SAS-site). HTML-5 is still not ready, you are needing plugins java, flash and possible more of them. When you are dependent on the java plugin you are on dependent  on that version and possible security breaches. Last year many (US gov) being instructed to disable java in the browser.

The browser is behaving in the same way as a thin-client, even worse is it can hampering everything as global shared single context.

For the user experience drag/drop with figures I do not expect browsers will be able to achieve that full functionality.

As long as google is still promoting a full client for their google-maps (earth) and not only having a browser based version there is surely a difference browser - desktop.   

Let us face it with Flash. At the moment when SAS was promoting that as the hottest one, it was killed by Apple Steve-jobs not allowing that on their devices.

The real problem SAS did not well is:  a very complex installation approach (SDW) that is slow and not being aligned with the desktop (msi) or server (rpm). 

At this moment virtualization is gaining moment. Desktop being delivered with applications in virtual machines (bubbles VM etc)

"SAS analytics U" will be delivered as virtual machine and also using SAS studio (two solutions for the same issue). 

At SAS they are going for several paths for the future. We will see whether they will get acceptance.        

by Frequent Contributor
on ‎04-25-2014 09:18 AM

To get an idea of what use cases i have in mind for the API see https://sourceforge.net/p/cmdlets4sas/wiki/Use%20Cases/.

These are examples of what can be done with a fully documented and powerfull API. Customers could easily integrate SAS into their business processes and even a third party ecosystem would be possible. There are so many IT development Best Practices out there which are not supported by the SAS standard tools.

I think SAS could benefit a lot from third party tools.

by Frequent Contributor
on ‎05-14-2014 07:40 AM

Another source which reflects my idea is the documentation of Microsofts "Visual Studio Online" (http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/integrate/explore/explore-vso-vsi)

This website contains the documentation of the REST API to develop custom apps for the cloud based software development environment which is similar to SAS Studio.

I hope this clarifies my intentions.

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