topic Re: Effect selection problem in proc NLMIXED in Statistical Procedures

Effect selection problem in proc NLMIXED

issac — Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:06:07 GMT

Hi folks;

I am working with 9.3 version. I would like to do some sorts of effect selection in nlmixed since it does not have such tools. I encountered something strange in doing so. In one step, when I enter one effect, it seriously decreases the -2loglikelihood but the P-Value of that effect turns out to be insignificant. Seeing below, I want to know, out of "admsource" and "pheartind", which is better to enter the model:

For "admsource"

Fit Statistics

-2 Log Likelihood	3038.0
AIC (smaller is better)	3044.0
AICC (smaller is better)	3044.0
BIC (smaller is better)	3061.4

Parameter Est. StdE DF tValue Pr > |t| Alpha Lower Upper Gradient

b0	-4.8324	0.3791	2448	-12.75	<.0001	0.05	-5.5758	-4.0891	2.64E-6
badmsource	1.4199	0.3591	2448	3.95	<.0001	0.05	0.7158	2.1240	5.435E-6
sd	0.7893	0.1121	2448	7.04	<.0001	0.05	0.5696	1.0090	0.000026

and for "pheartind"

Fit Statistics

-2 Log Likelihood	2674.6
AIC (smaller is better)	2680.6
AICC (smaller is better)	2680.6
BIC (smaller is better)	2697.4

Parameter Est. StdE DF tValue Pr > |t| Alpha Lower Upper Gradient

b0	-3.1469	0.1818	2025	-17.31	<.0001	0.05	-3.5034	-2.7903	0.000044
bpheartind	-0.2095	0.1641	2025	-1.28	0.2020	0.05	-0.5314	0.1124	0.000016
sd	0.6711	0.1081	2025	6.21	<.0001	0.05	0.4591	0.8832	0.00004

Although "pheartind" can reduce much bigger amount in -2loglikelihood but its parameter turns out to be insignificant. So which effect should be included in the model?

Thanks!

Issac

Re: Effect selection problem in proc NLMIXED

SteveDenham — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 11:42:26 GMT

Hi Issac,

What is the value of -2 log likelihood for the null model in each case? I have a sinking feeling that the data are not the same, so just comparing the log likelihoods of these two models is not the way to proceed. My assumption is based on the difference in degrees of freedom for the tow models. For bpheartind it is 2025, for badmsource it is 2448. With so much more data for the badmsource, it is not surprising that the value of -2 log likelihood is substantially larger.

Steve Denham

Re: Effect selection problem in proc NLMIXED

issac — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:42:17 GMT

Hi Steve;

For the null model containing only b0 and e (random effect), I have the followings:

Fit Statistics

-2 Log Likelihood	3082.5
AIC (smaller is better)	3086.5
AICC (smaller is better)	3086.5
BIC (smaller is better)	3098.1

Par. Est. StdE DF tValue Pr > |t| Alpha Lower Upper Gradient

b0	-3.3879	0.09136	2448	-37.08	<.0001	0.05	-3.5671	-3.2088	0.000033
sd	0.6490	0.1055	2448	6.15	<.0001	0.05	0.4421	0.8559	0.000028

sd is the standard deviation of e, since I have : RANDOM e~NORMAL(0,sd*sd) SUBJECT=id;

This differences in DF happened, I think, because 'pheartind' has 551 missing values. So how can I proceed in choosing the best effect to be included at each step?

Really appreciate!

Issac

Re: Effect selection problem in proc NLMIXED

SteveDenham — Mon, 17 Sep 2012 16:52:07 GMT

This is like trying to compare apples and oranges. One thing you might try is to subsample your data so that you have complete data for bpheartind and badmsource, then fit the models and look at the information criteria. I would repeat this several (say 500 subsamples) and see which of the two more often gives the smaller IC.

Steve Denham

Re: Effect selection problem in proc NLMIXED

issac — Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:11:51 GMT

Steve;

Thanks for your hint. Kind of thinking that it's better to get more data points, cause the missing values are also existed in other variables in my data, leading to some instability of the model. BTW, that's really helpful point to consider.

Issac