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    <title>topic Re: Sample size for visual analog scale outcome in three-level treatment trial with repeated measure in Statistical Procedures</title>
    <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/Sample-size-for-visual-analog-scale-outcome-in-three-level/m-p/833414#M41269</link>
    <description>&lt;P&gt;Thank you for your help! You are correct, I do not expect that any timepoint will have values from 0 to 100. I will be happy to avoid the ordinal multinomial approach.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Thank you for the Stroup reference!&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Katy&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:17:26 GMT</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>kivester</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2022-09-14T19:17:26Z</dc:date>
    <item>
      <title>Sample size for visual analog scale outcome in three-level treatment trial with repeated measures</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/Sample-size-for-visual-analog-scale-outcome-in-three-level/m-p/831631#M41194</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;I need to perform a sample size calculation for a proposed study that the outcome of interest is a visual analog score on a scale 0 to 100. The score will be recorded at the start of the study (week 0) and weekly for 6 weeks. There will be three treatment groups. A time*treatment interaction is of interest, but we specifically would like to know the estimated sample size necessary to detect a difference between the 3 groups at week 6. To add to the complexity, the study will be conducted at 6 different centers.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;I have fairly good pilot data and expect the scores to look like this:&lt;/P&gt;&lt;TABLE border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"&gt;&lt;TBODY&gt;&lt;TR&gt;&lt;TD&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Week0&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Week1&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Week2&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Week3&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Week4&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Week5&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Week6&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;&lt;TR&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Treatment1&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;&lt;P&gt;42.2222222&lt;/P&gt;&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;65&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;75&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;78.75&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;85&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;85.625&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;87.5&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;&lt;TR&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Treatment2&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;31.4285714&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;46.4285714&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;51.4285714&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;61.4285714&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;67&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;67.1428571&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;70.7142857&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;&lt;TR&gt;&lt;TD&gt;Treatment3&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;36.8253968&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;50.9&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;55.9&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;57.775&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;60.9&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;61.2125&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;TD&gt;62.15&lt;/TD&gt;&lt;/TR&gt;&lt;/TBODY&gt;&lt;/TABLE&gt;&lt;P&gt;I know I can estimate sample size in proc GLMPOWER, but with the outcome on an ordinal scale I am not sure that is the best thing to do.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Thanks for any help!&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2022 23:43:25 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/Sample-size-for-visual-analog-scale-outcome-in-three-level/m-p/831631#M41194</guid>
      <dc:creator>kivester</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2022-09-02T23:43:25Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Sample size for visual analog scale outcome in three-level treatment trial with repeated measure</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/Sample-size-for-visual-analog-scale-outcome-in-three-level/m-p/832491#M41231</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;To get what you want, you will also need some estimate of the time point variances and the covariance between time points.&amp;nbsp; At that level, you may be happier using simulation to determine sample size, or using the method outlined by Stroup in this paper&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;A href="https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=1DD150BA59B7EB27C5B890D4154BC3FE?doi=10.1.1.546.1468&amp;amp;rep=rep1&amp;amp;type=pdf" target="_self"&gt;https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=1DD150BA59B7EB27C5B890D4154BC3FE?doi=10.1.1.546.1468&amp;amp;rep=rep1&amp;amp;type=pdf&lt;/A&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;The other thing I would offer is that your pilot data has most of the VAS scores near the middle of the range.&amp;nbsp; At that point, you can consider the residuals to be approximately normal rather than using a very difficult to estimate ordinal multinomial (missing values will almost certainly be an issue - I doubt that any of the timepoints has values at all 101 points from 0 to 100.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;SteveDenham&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2022 13:15:01 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/Sample-size-for-visual-analog-scale-outcome-in-three-level/m-p/832491#M41231</guid>
      <dc:creator>SteveDenham</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2022-09-09T13:15:01Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Sample size for visual analog scale outcome in three-level treatment trial with repeated measure</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/Sample-size-for-visual-analog-scale-outcome-in-three-level/m-p/833414#M41269</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Thank you for your help! You are correct, I do not expect that any timepoint will have values from 0 to 100. I will be happy to avoid the ordinal multinomial approach.&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Thank you for the Stroup reference!&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Katy&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:17:26 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/Sample-size-for-visual-analog-scale-outcome-in-three-level/m-p/833414#M41269</guid>
      <dc:creator>kivester</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2022-09-14T19:17:26Z</dc:date>
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