topic Re: Power and Sample Size - SAS Task - Mean difference value in Statistical Procedures

Power and Sample Size - SAS Task - Mean difference value

_maldini_ — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 18:36:54 GMT

I am using SAS OnDemand for Academics w/ SAS Studio to perform a sample size calculation. There is a "Task" for "Power and Sample Size" with a "t-test" option.

For the mean (see image 1 below), there are 4 options to chose from:

Difference between means
Group means
Difference between means, null difference
Group means, null difference

If my hypothesis is that there is no difference between the means of 2 groups, should I select one of the "null difference" options?

If so, then why does it ask me for a "Mean difference value" (see image 2 below)? Wouldn't the "mean difference value" be 0? What value is this field asking for?

Thanks for the help.

Re: Power and Sample Size - SAS Task - Mean difference value

jiltao — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 19:47:37 GMT

You would need to set the null difference to be 0.

The mean difference refers to the two conjectured / sample group means.

Re: Power and Sample Size - SAS Task - Mean difference value

_maldini_ — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 19:52:03 GMT

<The mean difference refers to the two conjectured / sample group means. >

But why would I input a mean difference when I am testing for no difference? In other words, if the null difference is zero, why is it asking for a difference other than zero?

Re: Power and Sample Size - SAS Task - Mean difference value

ballardw — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 22:56:39 GMT

@_maldini_ wrote:
<The mean difference refers to the two conjectured / sample group means. >

But why would I input a mean difference when I am testing for no difference? In other words, if the null difference is zero, why is it asking for a difference other than zero?

What happens if you don't put anything in the mean difference box and run it?

I don't use the Task but have used Proc Power, the underlying procedure for this, and suspect that the entered mean differences only matter if you are actually testing for a difference such as with the "Difference between means" option.

Re: Power and Sample Size - SAS Task - Mean difference value

_maldini_ — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 21:18:31 GMT

Thanks for your response.

It won't run without a value in that field...And, the sample size changes when you input different mean difference values.

Re: Power and Sample Size - SAS Task - Mean difference value

jiltao — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 21:39:53 GMT

You do not have to provide difference in the means. You can provide the mean values themselves for the two groups instead. You will need to have some sort of observed / conjectured values for the group means in order to compute the power / sample size for testing whether in the population, the two group means are significantly different or not.

Re: Power and Sample Size - SAS Task - Mean difference value

_maldini_ — Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:31:56 GMT

@jiltao What I don't understand is why you would need to input a difference in the means or input the mean values themselves (w/ no difference between them?) if you are testing for no difference?

The difference in the means is 0 when testing for null difference, correct?

The group means could be any value, as long as they were the same value, correct?

Examples:

group 1: 10, group 2: 10

group 1: 100, group 2: 100

proc power uses the mean difference in the calculation, either as a result of the user inputting a mean difference or by subtracting one inputted mean from the other. It makes sense to me that these values would be required if I was testing for a mean difference other than zero (i.e., null difference), but not if I was testing for no difference.

What am I missing here?

Should I input the same values I would input if I was selecting "Difference between means" or "Group means", instead of selecting "Difference between means, null difference" or "Group means, null difference"

Thanks for your help here!

Re: Power and Sample Size - SAS Task - Mean difference value

jiltao — Mon, 25 Oct 2021 22:50:44 GMT

This goes back to hypothesis testing in statistical analysis.

You want to test if in the population, group1 mean is the same as the group2 mean. When you collect your data, you might have a sample mean of 15 for group1, and a sample mean of 17 for group 2. The question is, is this observed difference enough evidence to say the two groups have different means in the population? Or is the observed difference due to randomness and it does not show enough evidence to say the population means are different?

You need to enter the sample means (15 and 17) and also a measure of variation in the data (stddev) so the software can test this hypothesis for you.

For more information about the computational details please refer to the documentation below --

https://go.documentation.sas.com/doc/en/pgmsascdc/v_017/statug/statug_power_details81.htm

Jill