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    <title>topic Re: ANCOVA Modelling in Statistical Procedures</title>
    <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745273#M36307</link>
    <description>&lt;P&gt;This is interesting. Thanks for sharing! What I am not sure about. is what exactly is the issue if the dependent variable and one of the covariates is correlated?&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2021 18:36:39 GMT</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>jiltao</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2021-06-02T18:36:39Z</dc:date>
    <item>
      <title>ANCOVA Modelling</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745171#M36284</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Hello,&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Is it possible to have to an ANCOVA with a change score as a dependent variable with adjustment for baseline?&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Y1 = pre-test&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Y2 = post-test&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Grp 1 = Treatment 1 (ref)&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Grp 2 = Treatment 2&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Grp 3 = Treatment 3&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Change = Y2 - Y1&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;ANCOVA model :&amp;nbsp; Change = Bo + B1*Y1 + B2*Grp2 +B2*Grp3&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;(Knowing that I have 3 treatment groups)&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Thanks!&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2021 13:08:07 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745171#M36284</guid>
      <dc:creator>gkmzinsou</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2021-06-02T13:08:07Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: ANCOVA Modelling</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745178#M36285</link>
      <description>No. ANOVA hypothesis is iid (i.e. independent individual ). But your 'change' is correlation or paired . &lt;BR /&gt;I think you should use PROC MIXED or PROC GLIMMIX .&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;or try MANOVA , put both y1 and y2 as dependent variables in model .</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2021 13:22:45 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745178#M36285</guid>
      <dc:creator>Ksharp</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2021-06-02T13:22:45Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: ANCOVA Modelling</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745181#M36286</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;You can use PROC GLM for this --&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;proc glm data=yourdata;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp;class group (ref="1") ;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp;model change = baseline group;&amp;nbsp; &amp;nbsp;** for an unequal slope model, add the interaction baseline*group;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;run;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;quit;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2021 13:51:02 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745181#M36286</guid>
      <dc:creator>jiltao</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2021-06-02T13:51:02Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: ANCOVA Modelling</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745216#M36292</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;From Frank Harrell's online version of Regression Modeling Strategies, I pulled this from the annotated bibliography:&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Kung-Yee Liang and Scott L. Zeger.“Longitudinal Data Analysis of Continuous and Discrete Responses for Pre-Post&lt;BR /&gt;Designs”. In: Sankhy¯a 62 (2000). makes an error in assuming the baseline variable will have the same univariate&lt;BR /&gt;distribution as the response except for a shift; Baseline may have for example a truncated distribution based on a&lt;BR /&gt;trial’s inclusion criteria. If correlation between baseline and response is zero, ANCOVA will be twice as efficient as&lt;BR /&gt;simple analysis of change scores;if correlation is one they may be equally efficient, pp. 134–148 (cit. on p. 7-5).&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;That last sentence lets you know that fitting a change score, with the baseline as a covariate, is never as good as fitting the actual data.&amp;nbsp; Once you get your marginal means for treatment groups, you can calculate change from baseline.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Another way to think about this is to just do some simple algebraic rearrangement.&amp;nbsp; You have this model:&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN&gt;Change = Bo + B1*Y1 + B2*Grp2 +B2*Grp3.&amp;nbsp; Plugging in the definition of Change, you get:&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN&gt;Y2 - Y1 =&amp;nbsp;Bo + B1*Y1 + B2*Grp2 +B2*Grp3.&amp;nbsp; Now add Y1 to both sides, and get:&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN&gt;Y2 =&amp;nbsp;Bo + B1*Y1 + B2*Grp2 +B2*Grp3 + Y1.&amp;nbsp; Rearranging terms, this gives:&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN&gt;Y2 =&amp;nbsp;Bo + (B1 + 1)*Y1 + B2*Grp2 +B2*Grp3.&amp;nbsp; Redefine B1 + 1 as B1' and you get:&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN&gt;Y2 =&amp;nbsp;Bo + B1'*Y1 + B2*Grp2 +B2*Grp3.&amp;nbsp; But this holds if and only if there is no correlation between Y1 and Y2.&amp;nbsp; If there is correlation (and there usually is in most pre/post designs), then the estimates for B2 and B3 will be biased as a function of the amount of correlation in the response variables after removing the true effects of B2 and B3..&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN&gt;SteveDenham&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2021 15:23:25 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745216#M36292</guid>
      <dc:creator>SteveDenham</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2021-06-02T15:23:25Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: ANCOVA Modelling</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745273#M36307</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;This is interesting. Thanks for sharing! What I am not sure about. is what exactly is the issue if the dependent variable and one of the covariates is correlated?&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2021 18:36:39 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745273#M36307</guid>
      <dc:creator>jiltao</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2021-06-02T18:36:39Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: ANCOVA Modelling</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745439#M36316</link>
      <description>That is lead to Analysis of Covariance ? Change Y1 to the right side ? Great idea !</description>
      <pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2021 11:58:38 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/745439#M36316</guid>
      <dc:creator>Ksharp</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2021-06-03T11:58:38Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: ANCOVA Modelling</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/746242#M36338</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Of course we would like to see that the dependent variable is correlated with the independent covariate. Otherwise, it really doesn't add anything to the analysis. The problem I see in this case is that some of the correlation is artificially induced mathematically.&amp;nbsp; I believe the problem gets worse when there is an interaction between the covariate and any categorical variables in the model - there is a greater chance of calling regression to the mean a covariate by class level interaction.&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;Shoot - it's just that I was taught someplace along the line to not fit both a change score (equivalent to a regression coefficient of -1) and the pretreatment baseline (with regression coefficient = beta_hat).&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;SteveDenham&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2021 13:21:12 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/ANCOVA-Modelling/m-p/746242#M36338</guid>
      <dc:creator>SteveDenham</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2021-06-07T13:21:12Z</dc:date>
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