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    <title>topic GEE empirical se's vs model based se's in Statistical Procedures</title>
    <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/GEE-empirical-se-s-vs-model-based-se-s/m-p/646072#M31001</link>
    <description>&lt;P&gt;With modelse specificied gee reports both empirical and model-based se's. I'll stipulate that somwhere the documentation discusses the differences but i didn't see it obviously. Could someone please educate me on the how and why they differ. Since the empirical se's are provide by default, i kind of assume that they are the preferred version but is there a brief background on that?&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Thanks, Gene Maguin&lt;/P&gt;</description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2020 00:27:07 GMT</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>emaguin</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2020-05-08T00:27:07Z</dc:date>
    <item>
      <title>GEE empirical se's vs model based se's</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/GEE-empirical-se-s-vs-model-based-se-s/m-p/646072#M31001</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;With modelse specificied gee reports both empirical and model-based se's. I'll stipulate that somwhere the documentation discusses the differences but i didn't see it obviously. Could someone please educate me on the how and why they differ. Since the empirical se's are provide by default, i kind of assume that they are the preferred version but is there a brief background on that?&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;Thanks, Gene Maguin&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2020 00:27:07 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/GEE-empirical-se-s-vs-model-based-se-s/m-p/646072#M31001</guid>
      <dc:creator>emaguin</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2020-05-08T00:27:07Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: GEE empirical se's vs model based se's</title>
      <link>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/GEE-empirical-se-s-vs-model-based-se-s/m-p/646233#M31011</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;The &lt;A href="https://go.documentation.sas.com/?docsetId=statug&amp;amp;docsetTarget=statug_genmod_details29.htm&amp;amp;docsetVersion=15.1&amp;amp;locale=en#statug_genmod010638" target="_self"&gt;"Parameter Estimate Covariances"&lt;/A&gt; section of the PROC GENMOD documentation describes the formulas for the model and empirical covariance matrix estimates.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;The model based estimate is the inverse of the generalized Hessian used in the GEE fitting algorithm. The empirical, or robust, covariance is a "sandwich" estimator that uses the inverse of the generalized Hessian as the "bread" and the outer product of the score functions as the "meat".&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;The empirical estimate is the default because it is robust to misspecification of the working correlation structure, in particular it provides a consistent estimate for the covariance matrix even when the working correlation structure is misspecified. In general, the model based covariance matrix only provides a consistent estimate when the working correlation structure is correctly specified.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;
&lt;P&gt;One point to keep in mind when using the empirical covariance estimate is that when there are a small number of clusters or subjects in the data, it can tend to underestimate standard errors leading to more liberal tests and confidence intervals.&amp;nbsp;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2020 14:56:46 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://communities.sas.com/t5/Statistical-Procedures/GEE-empirical-se-s-vs-model-based-se-s/m-p/646233#M31011</guid>
      <dc:creator>MichaelL_SAS</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2020-05-08T14:56:46Z</dc:date>
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