topic Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS in SAS Data Management

Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

Samka — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 17:32:13 GMT

Are there plans for SAS to support additional data vendors? I am particularly curious about MongoDb, which is one of the most ubiquitous NoSQL databases, with perhaps the largest reservoir of programmers for a Hadoop solution.

Is this strictly a technical question, or is it primarily a business question, from both the side of SAS and outside vendors?

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

SASKiwi — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 20:00:09 GMT

A quick search for MongoDb indicates there are ODBC drivers available. This means SAS/ACCESS to ODBC is a possibility. You could check with SAS Tech Support to see if they are aware of anyone using ODBC with MongoDb.

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

Samka — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 20:08:46 GMT

I assume the ODBC drivers are developed by SAS, right? Is that a technical or business decision, do you think?

When I go to:
http://support.sas.com/documentation/cdl/en/hadoopov/68100/PDF/default/hadoopov.pdf

I found on page 9:

A commercial Hadoop distribution is the collection of Hadoop components (such as HDFS, Hive, and MapReduce) that is provided by a vendor. Many commercial Hadoop distributions include additional proprietary software. SAS supports commercial Hadoop distributions from Cloudera, Hortonworks, IBM InfoSphere BigInsights, MapR, and Pivota

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

LinusH — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 20:11:12 GMT

No, SAS only develops ODBC drivers for its own data sources.

ODBC drivers are usually developed by the DB vendor, or a 3rd party.

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

SASKiwi — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 20:18:03 GMT

No by third parties as @LinusH says. A Google search popped up several possibilities, for example:

http://www.simba.com/drivers/mongodb-odbc-jdbc/?gclid=CJfS3-61t80CFVMAvAodnoMKNw

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

Samka — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:08:51 GMT

I appreciate your replies--at the risk my appearing too dense, what does this mean in real life? Does it mean that other DBs have not developed drivers for SAS, which makes little sense to me from a business standpoint, unless there is something about certain databases that makes such development not technically feasible? Or, is it the absence of some sort of business relationship with SAS that would be a necessary prerequisite to that kind of development?

In other words, how does this statement from SAS fit with your answer?

SAS supports commercial Hadoop distributions from Cloudera, Hortonworks, IBM InfoSphere BigInsights, MapR, and Pivota

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

SASKiwi — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 21:27:02 GMT

Well I guess it is impossible for SAS to develop custom interfaces to all databases, hence they support just those for which there is sufficient commercial demand. For those databases where a custom interface does not exist a generic interface like ODBC (Open Database Connectivity) is still possible.

We use SAS/ACCESS to ODBC to work with SQL Server. There is nothing wrong with this approach and many ODBC solutions work very well.

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

Samka — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 22:09:29 GMT

You have described the interface with a RDB rather than NoSQL. While MongoDB is not on the scale of SQL Server in market penetration, (big data probably is not there for any platform yet) it is one of the most widely used and one of the easier to find developers for. So you have gotten to the nub of my question: why all the other NoSQL but not the largest? As an analyst that question intrigues me--and I am still not sure whether the answer is a technical or a business one--perhaps if I had better technical skills I would know. 🙂

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

SASKiwi — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 23:20:49 GMT

That is more of a business question that should be directed at your SAS Account Manager.

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

LinusH — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 02:34:04 GMT

What is your business case?
That's the one question SAS need to know about their customers to be confident in investing in a tailored access engine.
I don't have much knowledge about MongoDB as such, bet generally speaking, the wording of NoSQL implies the the SW is not (only) relational. SAS on the other hand a typical relational SW so any direct connections will loose in translation. Perhaps there are other non-SQL based ways of interacting?

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

Samka — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 03:24:24 GMT

Linus, SAS lists several NoSQL DB that or supports. I posted the list from SAS documents. It does not list the most common NoSQL DB with the most developers available and trained. I am simply in my naïveté asking why:
1. Is it a business decision because the two companies have not agreed to work on it together?
2. Is there a technical reason why not?

It would seem to me, ignorant of both business arrangements and technical details, that the dominant NoSQL DB and the dominant statistical package would collaborate -- what am I missing?

Seems pretty straightforward but I must not be expressing it well.

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

TomKari — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 04:11:39 GMT

Interesting conversation!

My two cents worth is that SAS has to make resource allocation decisions on which third-party data management products to provide additional support for, beyond "generic" ODBC interfaces. I'm not familiar with the NoSQL domain, but if you feel that SAS should invest in MondoDB, you can certainly make a case to your SAS office.

In my opinion, if you can round up a bunch of SAS clients who also use MongoDB, and who would benefit from additional features that might be provided by an extended SAS interface, I think that SAS would be very receptive. Basically, you simply have to demonstrate that there's a customer base large enough to make it worth their while.

On the other hand, if MongoDB is terrifically popular, but all of the people who use it except for you have no interest in SAS, that will make it a very tough sell.

Good luck,

Tom

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

Samka — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 04:16:43 GMT

Tom, so your conclusion is that it is a business decision by SAS rather than a technical
obstacle. Thanks

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

LinusH — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 06:21:54 GMT

Of course it's a business decision. SAS is a commercial enterprise.
And I don't really know what list you refer to. SAS/ACCESS interfaces to Hadoop distributions targets the relational parts, like Hive.

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

Samka — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 16:51:59 GMT

Page 9 of the attached document is what I am basing it on. Thanks.

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

LinusH — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 21:39:50 GMT

"why all the other NoSQL but not the largest?"
Still some confusion, what others are you referring to? The only I can think of is PI, and again, SAS support for Hadoop is mainly for the relational parts - "SQL".

Re: Additional NoSQL databses supported by SAS

JBailey — Thu, 16 May 2019 19:30:30 GMT

Hi Samka,

I am the product manager for SAS/ACCESS and our Hadoop-related products. I think we have some confusion here.

We are constantly evaluating third party data sources, such as MongoDB, to see if we will create dedicated SAS/ACCESS products. As Linus pointed-out, SAS does not develop ODBC drivers to third-party data sources. The database vendor, or another third party, creates ODBC drivers for third party databases.

Our SAS/ACCESS Interface to ODBC product will work with ODBC 3.5 compliant databases. DataDirect and Simba have created ODBC drivers specifically for MongoDB. There may be a driver that you can download from the MongoDB site. A MongoDB ODBC driver combined with SAS/ACCESS Interface to ODBC will enable you to access data which is stored in MongoDB.

There is a SAS Global Forum paper on SAS/ACCESS to ODBC that may be of help to you.

An Insider's Guide to SAS/ACCESS Interface to ODBC

Whether, or not, we create a SAS/ACCESS engine depends upon the strategic interests of SAS. Many factors go into the decision. Unfortunately, I cannot discuss this. I have taken the liberty of submitting your request to our internal tracking system. I can't make any promises, but your request is in the system.

I may be wrong, and I apologize if I am, but you appear to be mixing Hadoop support with that of MongoDB. MongoDB is not an Hadoop distribution. Our list of supported Hadoop distributions is available on the web (SAS 9.4 Supported Hadoop Distributions).

The support statement for non-Hadoop SAS/ACCESS products are available are available in the systems requirements for SAS Foundation. For example - Systems Requirements for SAS 9.4 Foundation for Linux for x64.

*** HEY, GUESS WHAT! ***

SAS/ACCESS Interface to MongoDB has been released!